Comments on: Spartina Project Poisons Us, Our Water, Our Wildlife With Herbicide http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/ Thoughtful Reading For A Compassionate Planet Sun, 05 Feb 2012 18:47:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: fritzi cohen http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1434 fritzi cohen Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:48:01 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1434 I was trying to find a snail mail address to send you some spartina handouts that we developed. Can you email me a way to get these to you. I was trying to find a snail mail address to send you some spartina handouts that we developed.
Can you email me a way to get these to you.

]]> By: fritzi cohen http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1433 fritzi cohen Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:38:50 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1433 Keith Stavrum wrote a message that didn't get through, then I tried to replicate his thoughts and mine didn't go through. I'm on a different computer now. To paraphrase what I think we both said: check out our web site, and link to our blog. We are engaged in serious lawsuits the first against the State of Wa. re the chemical drift on our oyster and clam beds as a result of the spraying of spartina, and recently a complaint has been filed against the Pacific County Weed Board because of their decision to deny us the ability to eradicate the spartina on our tidelands by mowing-- stating that the only way to eradicate spartina is with pesticides and they only have two years of money left to do it. The commercial oystermen who have been spraying carbaryl in Willapa Bay since as far back at least as 1965, joined the spartina eradication melee early on even though the grass presented no problems for the oyster industry. In fact every projected spartina infraction was not based on any science at all. However, with all the elected officials like our US Rep Congressman Baird, Sen. Murray, all of Pacific County officials state and local, and Norm Dicks chairman of the Environmental appropriations committee bringing over 5 years of earmarks, 1.5 million a year for spartina eradication, it was the game to be in. Baird, said that the spartina eradication program in Willapa Bay would be the poster child for the National Federal program for getting rid of invasive species. Lord Help us. And even though the powers that be including the Gov. Gregoire describe Willapa bay as pristine, it no longer has its once abundant natural oyster set, there are numerous dead zones, no crab, probably no real fish, the oyster seeds don't survive, and I'm certanly not interested in eating the oysters that have filtered all of these poisons but still as oysters tend to do-- survive. But we have a new and promising Lands Commissioner, Peter Landmark who doesn't seem to be so fond of pesticides. You should google him and tell him that spraying spartina with pesticides is not just about Willapa Bay or the Moby Dick Hotel, or Fritzi Cohen. This addiction to pesticides to go after invasive species has spread throughout the West Coast. And as a result the use of pesticides has caused a real threat to the environment and the public health, the air, the land, the sea, far beyond any threat that has ever really been proven against the demonized so called invasive species. This is the 200th birthday of Darwin, so lets think evolution. This is the 100th birthday anniversary of Rachel Carson and lets reflect on how long it took everyone to realize the dangers of chemical pesticides. Keith Stavrum wrote a message that didn’t get through, then I tried to replicate his thoughts and mine didn’t go through. I’m on a different computer now. To paraphrase what I think we both said: check out our web site, and link to our blog. We are engaged in serious lawsuits the first against the State of Wa. re the chemical drift on our oyster and clam beds as a result of the spraying of spartina, and recently a complaint has been filed against the Pacific County Weed Board because of their decision to deny us the ability to eradicate the spartina on our tidelands by mowing– stating that the only way to eradicate spartina is with pesticides and they only have two years of money left to do it. The commercial oystermen who have been spraying carbaryl in Willapa Bay since as far back at least as 1965, joined the spartina eradication melee early on even though the grass presented no problems for the oyster industry. In fact every projected spartina infraction was not based on any science at all. However, with all the elected officials like our US Rep Congressman Baird, Sen. Murray, all of Pacific County officials state and local, and Norm Dicks chairman of the Environmental appropriations committee bringing over 5 years of earmarks, 1.5 million a year for spartina eradication, it was the game to be in. Baird, said that the spartina eradication program in Willapa Bay would be the poster child for the National Federal program for getting rid of invasive species. Lord Help us.
And even though the powers that be including the Gov. Gregoire describe Willapa bay as pristine, it no longer has its once abundant natural oyster set, there are numerous dead zones, no crab, probably no real fish, the oyster seeds don’t survive, and I’m certanly not interested in eating the oysters that have filtered all of these poisons but still as oysters tend to do– survive. But we have a new and promising Lands Commissioner, Peter Landmark who doesn’t seem to be so fond of pesticides. You should google him and tell him that spraying spartina with pesticides is not just about Willapa Bay or the Moby Dick Hotel, or Fritzi Cohen. This addiction to pesticides to go after invasive species has spread throughout the West Coast. And as a result the use of pesticides has caused a real threat to the environment and the public health, the air, the land, the sea, far beyond any threat that has ever really been proven against the demonized so called invasive species. This is the 200th birthday of Darwin, so lets think evolution. This is the 100th birthday anniversary of Rachel Carson and lets reflect on how long it took everyone to realize the dangers of chemical pesticides.

]]> By: admin http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1432 admin Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:47:38 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1432 Welcome Fritzi, Excellent comment...and, oh boy, it looks like you have really connected the dots when it comes to the spartina campaign. When you work your way back to TNC and Monsanto, you have hit upon both the truth and the rock bottom layer of unscrupulous agencies. I am terribly, terribly sorry to learn of what has happened to your region of Washington and I applaud you for fighting herbicide use in Willapa Bay. This is your water, your land, your air, your home. You are right to try to guard these irreplaceable necessities and I am sincerely wishing you strength and insight in your protest. Thank you, too, for the recommendation of the book. I'd not heard that title before. I'll look for it at the library. Your comment was terrific and it makes my day to hear from someone as smart and dedicated as yourself. Mim Welcome Fritzi,

Excellent comment…and, oh boy, it looks like you have really connected the dots when it comes to the spartina campaign. When you work your way back to TNC and Monsanto, you have hit upon both the truth and the rock bottom layer of unscrupulous agencies.

I am terribly, terribly sorry to learn of what has happened to your region of Washington and I applaud you for fighting herbicide use in Willapa Bay. This is your water, your land, your air, your home. You are right to try to guard these irreplaceable necessities and I am sincerely wishing you strength and insight in your protest.

Thank you, too, for the recommendation of the book. I’d not heard that title before. I’ll look for it at the library.

Your comment was terrific and it makes my day to hear from someone as smart and dedicated as yourself.

Mim

]]> By: admin http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1431 admin Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:41:47 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1431 Welcome, Anuel, As Debra mentioned in her comments, she has written multiple papers on the Spartina project, so we can safely assume she is professionally invested in using herbicides to kill this grass, no matter what the cost to health and life. While I appreciated Debra taking the time to comment, her several comments make it pretty clear to both you and I that she is not willing to see the truth of the damage herbicides are doing to our environment, and that, when confronted with the truth about this, the only option she saw left to her was to attempt to make me (the author) look foolish. Too often, money is of greater concern to people than honesty, and I'm afraid Debra is simply not ready to take a straighter path in her life yet. We can only hope that one day she will face up to the damage herbicides are really doing to her own planet and make the firm decision that she will not support self-destructive actions. Thanks for taking the time to express your concerns here. Your comment is appreciated. Mim Welcome, Anuel,
As Debra mentioned in her comments, she has written multiple papers on the Spartina project, so we can safely assume she is professionally invested in using herbicides to kill this grass, no matter what the cost to health and life.

While I appreciated Debra taking the time to comment, her several comments make it pretty clear to both you and I that she is not willing to see the truth of the damage herbicides are doing to our environment, and that, when confronted with the truth about this, the only option she saw left to her was to attempt to make me (the author) look foolish. Too often, money is of greater concern to people than honesty, and I’m afraid Debra is simply not ready to take a straighter path in her life yet. We can only hope that one day she will face up to the damage herbicides are really doing to her own planet and make the firm decision that she will not support self-destructive actions.

Thanks for taking the time to express your concerns here. Your comment is appreciated.

Mim

]]> By: fritzi cohen http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1430 fritzi cohen Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:04:45 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1430 I would ask who Debra Ayres works for. And I would suggest that she read Philip and Alice Shabecoff's new book Poison Profits which talks about the frightening impact on children of contaminants in our environment, including pesticides. Yes I am one of the strident people from Willapa Bay who has been fighting against the use of pesticides by the commercial oystermen, supported by The Nature Conservancy which started the spartina eradication project in 1990 in partnership with Monsanto and USFWS, and ultimately getting the support of elected local and state officials. Over 25 million dollars , fed and state has been spent on poisoning our environment. Yes Debra I am happily in Mimland, even though I've never met Mim and am not a Vegan. But you are in Donald Strong, and TNC land and Monsanto land it appears. Recently the chemical corporations attacked Michelle's organic garden at the White House. All I can assume is that the chems are terrified about the prospect that organic may be catching on. I would ask who Debra Ayres works for. And I would suggest that she read Philip and Alice Shabecoff’s new book Poison Profits which talks about the frightening impact on children of contaminants in our environment, including pesticides. Yes I am one of the strident people from Willapa Bay who has been fighting against the use of pesticides by the commercial oystermen, supported by The Nature Conservancy which started the spartina eradication project in 1990 in partnership with Monsanto and USFWS, and ultimately getting the support of elected local and state officials. Over 25 million dollars , fed and state has been spent on poisoning our environment. Yes Debra I am happily in Mimland, even though I’ve never met Mim and am not a Vegan. But you are in Donald Strong, and TNC land and Monsanto land it appears. Recently the chemical corporations attacked Michelle’s organic garden at the White House. All I can assume is that the chems are terrified about the prospect that organic may be catching on.

]]> By: Anuel Jackson http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1409 Anuel Jackson Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:06:42 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1409 I am very concerned by what goes into our environment, as Debra stated that scientific studies were done by? are these scientist's that were government funded, and why were there just one set of scientists, the chemical and petroleum industries have scientist's who will dispute any negative effect that the chemicals have on our environment, does she know that the honey bee's are dying off what will happen to our vegetable,fruit,floral industry, as well as all the people employed in these industries, or is she defending big business because she has a vested interest in it, or maybe she knows someone who is, sounds to me that she is blind to the world around her and enjoys her safe steel and concrete world, devoid of the sound of songbirds, or any wildlife, those who believe that the government tells the truth are in there own little fantasy world of Disney? I am very concerned by what goes into our environment, as Debra stated that scientific studies were done by? are these scientist’s that were government funded, and why were there just one set of scientists, the chemical and petroleum industries have scientist’s who will dispute any negative effect that the chemicals have on our environment, does she know that the honey bee’s are dying off what will happen to our vegetable,fruit,floral industry, as well as all the people employed in these industries, or is she defending big business because she has a vested interest in it, or maybe she knows someone who is, sounds to me that she is blind to the world around her and enjoys her safe steel and concrete world, devoid of the sound of songbirds, or any wildlife, those who believe that the government tells the truth are in there own little fantasy world of Disney?

]]> By: admin http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1294 admin Sat, 08 Nov 2008 06:54:03 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1294 Hello Again Debra, Since you've asked, Mim-land is planet Earth, and it's your Earth, too. You can call dumping herbicides into our environment 'repairing an ecosystem' if that somehow makes it sound alright, but I'm afraid it's you who may be guilty of magic thinking if you don't believe such actions are poisoning us. Where do the chemicals, go, Debra? Once you've dumped them into the water, where do they go? The answer is that they remain here with us permanently, in our atmosphere and in the makeup of our planet. Are you aware of the fact that DDT is oozing out of the melting polar ice cap? Sure, it's been many decades since they made it illegal here in the U.S., and no one ever sprayed it on the ice, but there it is, nonetheless. Where will your herbicides go, after you've polluted California with them? Certainly not 'away', as the manufacturers of such chemicals would perhaps like us to believe. They remain here with us, causing disease and untimely death. This is not only rational, it is the truth, and no number of papers anyone writes, and no clever turns of phrase about repairing eco-systems can triumph over the basic scientific fact that what we put into the environmet stays with us, in our soil, our clouds, our rainfall our water and our air. So, yes, indeed, by supporting the use of toxic chemicals in California, you are supporting the poisoning not only of today's children, but of the children of all future generations. Please think about that. Mim Hello Again Debra,
Since you’ve asked, Mim-land is planet Earth, and it’s your Earth, too. You can call dumping herbicides into our environment ‘repairing an ecosystem’ if that somehow makes it sound alright, but I’m afraid it’s you who may be guilty of magic thinking if you don’t believe such actions are poisoning us.

Where do the chemicals, go, Debra? Once you’ve dumped them into the water, where do they go? The answer is that they remain here with us permanently, in our atmosphere and in the makeup of our planet.

Are you aware of the fact that DDT is oozing out of the melting polar ice cap? Sure, it’s been many decades since they made it illegal here in the U.S., and no one ever sprayed it on the ice, but there it is, nonetheless.

Where will your herbicides go, after you’ve polluted California with them? Certainly not ‘away’, as the manufacturers of such chemicals would perhaps like us to believe. They remain here with us, causing disease and untimely death.

This is not only rational, it is the truth, and no number of papers anyone writes, and no clever turns of phrase about repairing eco-systems can triumph over the basic scientific fact that what we put into the environmet stays with us, in our soil, our clouds, our rainfall our water and our air.

So, yes, indeed, by supporting the use of toxic chemicals in California, you are supporting the poisoning not only of today’s children, but of the children of all future generations.

Please think about that.
Mim

]]> By: Debra Ayres http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 Debra Ayres Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:06:44 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1283 Dear Mim - what kind of math do they use in Mim-land? Does it require an absence of rational thinking and a belief in magic? Clearly, you and I will never reach agreement when you compare repairing a broken ecosystem to poisoning children. And as I have used my true name, feel free to google it and Spartina to get 10+ pages of my work on this invasion. Dear Mim – what kind of math do they use in Mim-land? Does it require an absence of rational thinking and a belief in magic?

Clearly, you and I will never reach agreement when you compare repairing a broken ecosystem to poisoning children.

And as I have used my true name, feel free to google it and Spartina to get 10+ pages of my work on this invasion.

]]> By: admin http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 admin Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:26:05 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1282 Dear Debra, Thank you for sharing your views on this subject. In answer to your question, yes, it would be preferable to have an ecosystem changed and plants destroyed by the natural invasion of a grass rather than permanently poisoning that ecosystem, all water, all animals, all plants and the air with toxic herbicides. Please think for a moment about Marin County being the nation's biggest cancer hotspot. Think about children being born across the country with autism every minute. Think about anyone you know or love who is suffering from chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, MCS, MS or other environmentally-related diseases. Think about the fact that there is literally no safe water left to drink in America without the most extreme chemical treatments and ask yourself the question you have posed. Could ANYTHING justify dumping further chemical toxins into our water, into our land, our skies and our bodies...let alone the growth of a grass being seen as justification for such egregious chemical poisoning of our environment? Whether studies are prepared by the USDA or the JPR, it doesn't really matter in in the year 2008. Human beings have learned that toxic chemicals cause disease and death in the human body. There are no 2 ways around this, as far as I am concerned, and I am ready to condemn any group that chooses to ignore this hard-learned fact in order to forward their aims, whether those aims are killing plants, insects or animals. Manual removal of the cordgrass, if it truly presents the threat that has been assigned to it, is the only environmentally-friendly way to approach this situation. Poisoning children should not be an alternative anyone would actually support. Please, think about that equation. Thank You. Mim Dear Debra,
Thank you for sharing your views on this subject.

In answer to your question, yes, it would be preferable to have an ecosystem changed and plants destroyed by the natural invasion of a grass rather than permanently poisoning that ecosystem, all water, all animals, all plants and the air with toxic herbicides.

Please think for a moment about Marin County being the nation’s biggest cancer hotspot. Think about children being born across the country with autism every minute. Think about anyone you know or love who is suffering from chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, MCS, MS or other environmentally-related diseases. Think about the fact that there is literally no safe water left to drink in America without the most extreme chemical treatments and ask yourself the question you have posed.

Could ANYTHING justify dumping further chemical toxins into our water, into our land, our skies and our bodies…let alone the growth of a grass being seen as justification for such egregious chemical poisoning of our environment?

Whether studies are prepared by the USDA or the JPR, it doesn’t really matter in in the year 2008. Human beings have learned that toxic chemicals cause disease and death in the human body. There are no 2 ways around this, as far as I am concerned, and I am ready to condemn any group that chooses to ignore this hard-learned fact in order to forward their aims, whether those aims are killing plants, insects or animals.

Manual removal of the cordgrass, if it truly presents the threat that has been assigned to it, is the only environmentally-friendly way to approach this situation. Poisoning children should not be an alternative anyone would actually support.

Please, think about that equation.
Thank You.
Mim

]]> By: Debra Ayres http://www.veganreader.com/2008/07/15/spartina-project-poisons-us-our-water-our-wildlife-with-herbicide/comment-page-1/#comment-1281 Debra Ayres Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:13:52 +0000 http://www.veganreader.com/?p=156#comment-1281 Overly strident calls against herbicides was the hallmark of the Spartina invasion in Willapa Bay,WA. Lawsuits delayed control for several years while the grass covered naturally open mudflats at an exponential rate. Massive control efforts costing millions of dollars was the result. Similar stridency was avoided in California as the Invasive Spartina Project (ISP) invited all stake-holders to the table, and had solid scientific evidence detailing the threats to the SF estuary environment posed by Spartina, primarily from the University of California, Davis. For an overview of the work accomplished by UC Davis researchers see: http://ucdavismagazine.ucdavis.edu/issues/sp05/feature_2.html Your reference on imazapyr toxicity is put out by the “Journal of Pesticide Reform” and the “Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides” and, to put it mildly, is biased in the extreme. Some of the damages you cite occurred after animals were fed the chemical for several days/years. How about doing proper research and tracking down the references to imazapyr listed on the Invasive Spartina Project website? Unless you also mistrust all the data gathered and presented in these documents by the USDA, the Washington State Dept. of Agriculture, and a private environmental scientist. The question is whether you think a plant like cordgrass that threatens a native species with genetic extinction, and completely changes a natural ecosystem to an unnatural one is preferable to using a low toxicity herbicide to kill it. Overly strident calls against herbicides was the hallmark of the Spartina invasion in Willapa Bay,WA. Lawsuits delayed control for several years while the grass covered naturally open mudflats at an exponential rate. Massive control efforts costing millions of dollars was the result. Similar stridency was avoided in California as the Invasive Spartina Project (ISP) invited all stake-holders to the table, and had solid scientific evidence detailing the threats to the SF estuary environment posed by Spartina, primarily from the University of California, Davis. For an overview of the work accomplished by UC Davis researchers see: http://ucdavismagazine.ucdavis.edu/issues/sp05/feature_2.html

Your reference on imazapyr toxicity is put out by the “Journal of Pesticide Reform” and the “Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides” and, to put it mildly, is biased in the extreme. Some of the damages you cite occurred after animals were fed the chemical for several days/years. How about doing proper research and tracking down the references to imazapyr listed on the Invasive Spartina Project website? Unless you also mistrust all the data gathered and presented in these documents by the USDA, the Washington State Dept. of Agriculture, and a private environmental scientist.

The question is whether you think a plant like cordgrass that threatens a native species with genetic extinction, and completely changes a natural ecosystem to an unnatural one is preferable to using a low toxicity herbicide to kill it.

]]>